Who Contributes More To A Pup, Sire Or Dam

Discussion in 'Breeding, Bloodlines, and Pedigrees' started by salzer mtn, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Active Member

    I read alot on different beagle boards and most people say that the dam contributes 50 to 6o per cent to the pup's. I don't hardly agree with this. Now if you have a sire and dam that don't have any line breeding to them this could be so, but if one of the parents is linebred or inbred in my opinion the pups would lean toward that individual. What's your opinion.
     
  2. Bglenut

    Bglenut New Member

    50% for Sire and 50% Dam - It takes two beagles (male and female) to have pups.

    Enough Said.
     

  3. rosco

    rosco New Member

    Salzer,
    I am beginning to learn: If bgl states it as a fact, take it to the bank.

    Enough said.
     
  4. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Active Member

    Well i guess my topic has offended, by the word enough said i guess that means it's not open for discussion. I did have a male that was out of Batman by a Northside Robo female that was linebred all the way and i bred him to a female that was not linebred and all the pups were just like the dad both in color and running style and everything else. Enough said.
     
  5. Ken James

    Ken James Active Member

    497
    50
    MS.
    It is a fact half the chromosomes come from the female and half comes the male. Now as far as traits, color, size, etc. that is some thing to think about. I read an article on that from a hunting magazine about 10 years ago . It was entitled A Rainbow of Colors. It was most interesting. I know I have inbred/line bred for many years and just about the time I think I have things figured out they come up different. Now as Tim can tell you I am big on L/W and R/W and I breed that way ,but every once in a while that old recessive thing jumps up no matter if it is 6or 8 generations. I have taught science for a lot of years and we talk about genetics repeatedly, but it still throws a curve sometime..
     
  6. To start with breeding is an art,not a science and any long time successful breeder will acknowledge that fact.My hounds will dominate any other hound breed to the first time outcrossed and it is a proven fact and been proven over and over many times sense i started inbreeding and setting the genetics..Blanchard of Mass, a long time breeder of patch hounds bought a male from me many years ago and i told him that any female that male was breed to would dominate.He told others what i had said and he informed me no one believed him,until the pups was born and all were ticked.That male's name was Whitener's JR...The truth is what anyone wants it to be,but the facts remain the facts.
    In most things we all have different opinions and thoughts about what is and isn't and as adults we all can agree to disagree without hurting feelings or upsetting others or getting upset our selves.So i can't speak for others or their hounds,but i know my breeding/bloodline and know their ability when it come to breeding and what percentage..within certain parameters..they will dominate..
    I think this from AKC will answer a few questions and was posted on a previous thread about breeding.
    http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_bre...lgrandsire.cfm
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  7. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Active Member

    I agree Rebel, after all that would be ONE of the reason's to linebred or inbreed in the first place. I have seen in certain human family's the resemblance was so strong in the family looks and trait's that it was like if you saw one, you saw them all.
     
  8. plumber

    plumber Active Member

    A pup may look like the sire or dam, but I promise the other 50% is in there. If you are inbreeding or linebreeding within a familie its tighter genes, than going with a outcross. But like Bglenut said 50-50 it takes two:up:
     
  9. Jeff Gammon

    Jeff Gammon Active Member

    I'm with the 50/50 boys. I think way to credit is give to the stud dog. I'm not saying I don't want to breed to the best I can find, but I do want to breed the best stud I can find to the best bitch I have
     
  10. Bglenut

    Bglenut New Member

    No you didn't offend me at all - I just added that at the last momment.

    You post is for open discussion 100%.

    I just think most people put so much on the Sire or Dam when breeding 2 dogs. It is a 50/50 percentage thing, and not 80/20, 90/10, 70/30, 60/40, etc ...
     
  11. rosco

    rosco New Member

    I ask my wife ,
    She said " male 63 seconds, female 63 days what do you mean who contributes more."
     
  12. beagleman01

    beagleman01 Active Member

    roflamo, rosco thats funny
     
  13. Bglenut

    Bglenut New Member



    lol
     
  14. i would say 50/50 but i have seen some good female breed tosome sorry males and the pups turned out good and i have seen the other way too
     
  15. huguejm

    huguejm Active Member

    :headscratch:I've had hounds since I was 15 and to my shame I still don't have a clue which one contributes more.

    When ever I luck up and get a fairly decent litter of pups and I think I might have it figured out I'll start another litter and realize I'm more lost then ever.

    What I have noticed though is some things seem to work and many times it is what I would have never thought would work. The best cross I own off of my hounds was from an accidental breeding from two hounds I would have never bred together they were way too slow but I did learn something from it.

    The two hounds that mated were both directly off of proven top performes from a line bred family. The female is an average all around solid little hound that has some of all the things you want in a hound but does none of them outstanding.

    The male like the female did all things well without fault but like the female was two easy and did nothing outstanding BUT with two exceptions.

    1-He had the ability to (SMELL) a rabbit when none could. Not mouthy he could (Smell) a rabbit. He (Proved) this again and again in his short life. He would run dead last or 20 ft. behind the pack he didn't care. When the other hounds had a check he would just keep comming and when he got to the check area he just kept right on going. He didn't have a check. He did this over and over his whole short life. I had never seen a hound do that over and over again.

    2-He could (Focus) on that smell, scent and would ignore everything else around him and walk or trot every inch of the line all the time. He could do what he did any day, every day all the time.

    He accidentally bred the bitch mentioned above while a friend was keeping them for me. I tried to give the pups away because both parents were too slow. No one would take them because the parents were too slow. My wife said start the pups and then see if you can give them away once they are running so I did. When the pups started they run down and killed every rabbit in my buddys pen in three nights. When there were no more rabbits in the pen which I didn't know yet they chewed a hole through his new vinyl coated wire when they saw rabbits on the outside of the pen and escaped and started running them in the wild. They pounded deep in the swamp for three days before they let me catch them. Every one of those pups that have been put in a field trial have placed one needs a win to finish.

    Now once I saw those pups out of the slow male and slow female I bred the slow male on purpose to the littermate sister of the bitch he bred accidentally. She was not at all too slow and was right on. I started and raised those pups and got the same thing, best I ever had to that point. I started some pups out of those pups this year and man I have some real nice ones.

    So now I said I'm gonna run this slow male till he picks it up and trial him if he does. He did start to pick up with everyday puonding. I ran him too long and too hard on a August day and he died. He didn't look that hot but he fell down and died.

    Now I decided to breed the first female he accidentally bred the too slow one, again. I bred her to FC Midnight Mister. I kept two pups. Both have been put in one Lic. trial and both have place. These are some of the best I have ever had too.

    Well I said let me breed her again maybe she was lucky twice, so I bred her and her daughter from the Mister breeding to FC Brush-Fire Driver.

    I am running 5 pups out of the slow bitch and Driver and all can smoke the mother and run a rabbit. So far so good.

    Now the pups out of the slow bitches daughter and Driver are probably some of the best to date. I sold the two big males running at 10 months old to judges and they can flat pound a rabbit and do it text book right with HUNT.
    You can look for them next year in the trials. They will be hounds to beat.



    Now the point is which one of these two CULLS contributed the most to the GOOD hounds they produced that are also producing time and time again?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


    Now I said I did learn somthing and this is it.


    1-You need a big NOSE! My hounds didn't need foot they had it was in there they had it all along. They needed NOSE!!!!!!!!!! Gave them a nose, even from a walking dog and they ran like hell. If your hounds are too slow you may not need foot you may need NOSE and even if you have some you may still need more especially if they have foot in the pedigree.

    You can't (RUN) steady day in and day out what you can't smell with an average nose. You will need the bad scent day excuse ALOT!!!!!!!

    2- If you are ever lucky enough to find own or get to breed to a producing hound do it. I would breed or get pups from a known producer before I would breed or get pups from an outstanding individual.

    3- You need to breed to the best your line has to offer. As you can see it may even fix your mistakes.

    I still don't know who contributes more sire or dam. If I did or anybody did we would all have all Field Champions like T-BOY Rob the Player Hater Two Couple Pack Rabbit Slayer.

    Mitch Huguet
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  16. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Active Member

    I was talking to a rabbit hunter one time that had two litter mate sisters. He said one was alot better rabbit dog than the other but he also said that he had bred these two females several times to the same male and of the two sisters, the best female would not have as good of pups as her sister did.
     
  17. Harp

    Harp Well-Known Member

    Boys you have to have a good bitch....why do you think that some Field Champion Stud dogs will breed a FC female free...It is to get some good pups down so they can get moore breedings. But some cattle owners with a mixture of cows will buy a good bull just to improve the heard.....but they don't keep the bull calf.....
     
  18. T-BOY hate the game not the player:D:D. Whats matter ya been missen old dad. Me i just cloe my eyes & hope fer the best & Breed the2 that suit me most to try fer what i like best:headscratch:
     
  19. RKW

    RKW Active Member

    This is a very interesting thread Hug's post has the most detailed trial and error over the years, Rob's post is interesting too because whatever he's doing is working for him, but I believe that Rosco's wife has the most factually sustainable evididence of all. lol

    Way to go Mrs. Rosco!!!!!!!! :clap:

    Roger
     
  20. On a serios note fer me i look fer a strong bitch line of type hound i like & a good produceing Male out of a good strong bitch line of type hound that i like & start from there & it has worked very well fer me There record speaks fer its self