Judging Scenario-Progressive Pack

Discussion in 'Judges Chambers' started by ddetar00, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. Okay ... I will give this a try...

    We are PP Rules....

    5 dogs down... White, Red, Blue, Green, Yellow. Release the hounds into a fairly heavy brush... all hounds seem to work with intent... but nothing found in the regulation time.... handle and move em.

    Release into a piney thicket... Again all hounds working ... yellow is leaving the area but not showing signs of tracking, just wondering. Blue strikes and is given the clock. Green and White come in to honor and Red stays working as if the strike did not occur. Yellow starts to move back in, but not with intent.

    White opens in lead and Green & Blue are neck to neck , Yellow third and red falls in hot as the pack breaks down in only a 30 yard line. No rabbit was seen / produced... check fails to find line and time expires... we are now handeling and moving again....

    so tell me... is there any scores given as of yet?
  2. rosco

    rosco New Member

    I would assume not as no rabbit was produced.
    I am not sure because we are using pp rules.

    Why are we handeling the pack ?

  3. Because the track has been declared dead... we have determined that the rabbit either did not exist , or that the pack was not succesful in lining it out and give chase.

    In PP rules, once this has been determined that judge may request that the hounds be leashed and moved to a new area.
  4. rosco

    rosco New Member

    So all the dogs are still down we are just changing spots ?
  5. So far...

    Nothing has occured that would warrant disqualification... Yellow has been observed leaving the area... but no hound was on the clock at the time. The red hound failed to hark at the strike, but when what little race occured he attempted to, but got to the pack as the race broke down. The race lasted less than 4 minutes, we had a Blue dog strike, and we had Green / White report... but we did not physicaly see a rabbit.

    This was a scenario that occured when I was handeling for my mentor.... it gets better :whistle:
  6. DOes anybody see any scoring in the first phase of this cast???
  7. MackC

    MackC Moderator

    I'm not sure about PP but in LP I believe blue would be given +10 strike pts. Judge can determine a rabbit was produced with-out seeing it.
  8. According to my PP rulebook that holds true here as well,

    The hound twas wonering... anything with that? or the Red that did not seem to want to honor the strike.
  9. rosco

    rosco New Member

    Are we sure we had a strike.

    Is red lazy or the smartest dog in the pack ?
  10. bterry

    bterry New Member

    for no more than happened in that short period of time I wouldnt get hung up on red not going on the first bark because he did try to go to them when they lined out and he was working the entire time
  11. beagleman01

    beagleman01 Active Member

    if blue was stuck in he has 4 minutes for a rabbit to be produced. since no rabbit was produced the blue dog reiceives 10 minus points, dead track move the hounds

  12. rosco

    rosco New Member

    I agee with Beagle man.

    I believe he is reading the book.:wink:
  13. beagleman01

    beagleman01 Active Member

    no been judging pp18 since 1992
  14. Okay... so thus far we have 10 minus points on Blue. Nothing else happening. We have moved the hounds and released. All dogs seem to work the brush well, lot sof walking, hounds are scattered.

    Green strikes only once, Blue comes over and checks, Strikes (more than three barks) so now has the clock. Yellow hound has wondered way off and is heard opening on the far side of field... Green and blue ramain working their line, White and Red hark to Yellow.

    Green and blue get nothing going, and the other three have a small race much like the first race... very short.

    What to do in this case ???
  15. rosco

    rosco New Member

    DD I am totally lost with this pp.
    I believe we need somemore dogs or some more rabbits:beagle:
  16. beagleman01

    beagleman01 Active Member

    blue gets 2nd minus for not producing so now has 20 minus pts, if yellow and other 2 dogs running judge moves to them and when all 5 dogs are present he starts scoring with 1st check, but all dogs must be there to start any scoring
  17. I am getting to a point with this... so that I understand as well.
    Last Spring I handled a hound for a fella and this is exactly what happened.

    so I am trying to get to understand how we can judge hounds when a rabbit is never produced. We only have intent to go on.

    SO I can save the painful cinclusion to this.

    The yellow hound wound up winning this cast, The red hound I was handeling and he was last of 4, the blue collar wound up getting picked up, and I do not recall second and third.

    It was my first expeirence in all of it. Too much handeling and no running.
    Witrh no rabbit ever seen how can we judge???
  18. MackC

    MackC Moderator

    A hunt like you just described is hard to judge and no fun for anyone especially the judge, but it does happen pretty frequently. I've been to a few ARHA trials just like that in the past year. It takes a very good judge to be able to sort it out correctly.
  19. FB

    FB Administrator Staff Member

    Thats two things that I dont like about PP. I know its hard to find one sometimes but you cant judge dogs without the dogs running a rabbit. I also dont really like that you cant start judging till all dogs are in the race. I can understand getting em together on a split but hunting beagles are supposed to hark to other dogs and pack up. If they dont they shouldnt be in the trial imo.

    I could change a rule or two in some of the other formats too so Im not knockin' PP. Im just sayin'...