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Great thread. One thing I notice in the old pedigrees is the occasional show champions mixed in. It shows that conformation was considered when breeding. I also love the history. I have often wondered why JR's T J never was selected for the HOF. He was up two or three times but never voted in. From all I have heard and read about him he was certainly a solid candidate. Politics maybe!! Does anyone have any info about that. Just like presidential elections, the majority of votes wins but it just seems strange to me. The deep south has always been strong in breeding and trials. I have heard this - while some clubs in the deep south may be very conservative, others allow a rougher style hound to place. I am guessing that because there are so many clubs and trialers in the midwest, they get a lot more votes than in other areas.

When I cast my votes each year I try to vote on what I have seen and what has been produced by the candidates. And as far as the men and women nominated, I look at both what they have done in breeding dogs but more on what they have contributed to the sport.

About H&H, I have been a strong supporter of the magazine since Kaylynn took over but I am starting to back peddle a little. It seems to me that the acknowledgment and response has suffered quiet a bit lately. As Mr. John said, I used to love reading all the field trial results. If the club FTS and club secretaries take the time to mail the results I believe they should be published. I thought the people at this years hunt treated her very well. I am surprised that she doesn't seem interested in next years hunt. Who knows???
 
John: I wonder if that Henry’s Gypsy Rose came from Ohio? There was an old fellow in the Dayton area named Herbert Henry who was around the early trials. Named his hounds “Henry’s”. There was one called Henry’s Lady VIII who was a terrific running big female, and sounds just like you described Gypsy Rose. Littermates maybe?

Huntsman, Henry's Gypsy Rose was bred by Connie Miller. I have not been able to speak with Purvis recently as I spent several days this week in the hospital. Home now, I do know she was brought down south but my memory with names of Humans isn't what it use to be. Purvis recognized that she had great qualities that he could develop. I learnt a lot from this man in recognizing good and bad qualities. He tells it like it is, some like it others are offended, but as he says, a good quality can be developed and improved. A bad quality can be corrected and hidden some, but still remains in the genetics and will come out at one time or another. Purvis doesn't believe in hiding the bad qualities, but builds on the good.
 
Hope you’re ok. They don’t put you in the hospital for nothing these days.

I don’t know a Connie Miller. Sounds like a 60s Country singer. Maybe Herbert Henry got them from her - who knows. Purvis would be interesting to talk to.

I do think you can breed out bad qualities (traits) from your lines if you have to. If you can eliminate the genetics that carry them, they should be gone forever. Sometimes that can be as simple as using a littermate instead of the hound showing the bad trait. An example: I had a nice male who was putting a kink in the tails of his male puppies, but oddly enough his daughters had normal tails. After two or three litters like this, I stopped breeding to him. I eliminated the males from my program and bred from the daughters = no more kinks since. So now over 20 years later, the original dog is in my pedigrees through his daughters, but I don’t get kinks today. Some experiments work out like that.

I have heard Ben Hardaway and others say sometimes you have to “breed through” poor hounds to keep a line going. I understand what they mean, but it would pain me to do that. I don’t like weak links in the chain, and it sounds like Purvis would not either.
 
Talking about Mr. Purvis,

A few week ends ago I went and ran dogs with Mr. Purvis, Mr. Lonnie Richard, Mr. Mike Necaise, Mr. Richie Romero, Mr. Donald Gallion, Mr. Byron and several other famous old pros of the SPO sport.

Every one brought some of their best older hounds and all their best young prospects it took two days of all day running to get through them all. We ran them in big packs, small packs, braces, trio's to see what we were breeding to next. Beautiful, talented, high bred, old-time, old school, royal bred, private stock dogs everywhere. Truck loads of them tied out all over the place. Man I have to tell you I saw some fine mouth watering hunting, jumping and running. Huge booming mouths. I ran behind packs of dogs all day long my heart and adrenaline pumping!!! I didn't even get hungry! The time flew by. We evaluated dogs with every eye on every hound every time down evaluating every mover and sound....measuring them at all points. Nothing could be hidden. The dogs were totally exposed. That is good stuff right there now!

Best field trial I ever seen in a long long time!

Many of these hounds don't set foot in todays trials. I never seen so many fine running, hard hunting, big booming mouthed, outstanding dogs and fine young prospects in one place in my whole life. Talk about some hounds!!! Talk about some judging! everyone there had judged for many years. All eyes were on every move or sound a hound made or didn't make.

That dog gone Purvis had a pack of 4 bitches out of the same sire and dam from three repeat breeding's Litters. All brothers and sisters from three different litters. Talk about stick it on a Bunny! I felt sorry..... for the rabbit!

Every dog man needs to witness a pack of hounds do what they did once in his lifetime.

It will change your mind about what you expect out of dogs and what you keep I promise you. They ran like a machine! IT WAS BEAUTIFUL TO BEHOLD THE SPECTICAL! They put on a how to clinic. Mr. Purvis tried not to smile but it slipped out every now and then. Yes it did. I learn lot from Mr. Purvis every time I run dogs with him.

Mr. Purvis is a blessing to my whole family.
 
Good stuff, John. Wish you had kept that going. I remember stud ads for FC Herb’s Rambling Man and thinking what an interesting pedigree.
Oh its' still running in the Marshes of South Louisiana every year day in and day out. That blood still runs deep behind many a good hounds in the Deep South.

Rabbit Hunters have it.

People won't probably see it in hunting test on a Saturday morning.....put on by the AKC though. Not usuallyt. These hounds are working on the weekend not playing. They are earning a living for themselves and their owners. You have to load up in an air boat or marsh buggy or 20 foot flat boat to watch these guys perform under the GUN!

I let friend of mine who is a hunting guide get a good male 4 years ago for his pack. He needed a real "Jump Dog" for his Marsh guide business. I had two good 2 year old males and a bitch descended from many of these old kind of dogs bred to my dogs. I let him purchase one of the males that I had two of and retained breeding rights.

This good old HUTING BLOOD even shows up in the back of hounds that place in and win the AKC Nationals....people just don't know the pedigrees behind all the winning and placing hounds so they don't speak of it or check on it. Some of the SPO guys would roll over in their graves if they knew what just beat them.

Some of you guys in KY and TN would be shocked at how some of the hounds in past years were bred (in the back) of their pedigree that won and placed in the AKC Nationals and the Deep South if you dug down to the roots of some of those hounds from down here.

That's why I say to young people starting out all the time what do YOU want beagles for???? not what does your buddies or SPO or Brace or Large pack or ARHA want beagles for.....what do you want your dogs to do? Why do you really want beagles...to hunt or to play games or both. Once you know that.... you can get out of other peoples box and move around.......the air is cleaner and the view is much better outside the box. Don't follow the pack. Do something different...make something Great Happen. Count the costs and Do your own thing....Do it for you...do it for beagles...do it for all of that. Do it for FUN!

I and many others I hunt with in the Deep South still have dogs that go back to lots of these old dogs Mr. John Posted Huntsman....Just like the Eveready Bunny....... it is still...... going and going and going!!!

The BEST and most COMPLETE hounds I ever had the pleasure to watch run a rabbit and or gun with were crosses of hounds you would never imagine existed. These guys bred good hound to good hounds...... they didn't follow fads or chase ribbons though their hounds could shine when brought to any kind of a trial where a rabbit was the target game.

If you notice....Lots of the good old gay blood mixed heavy behind lots of those great Gundog Dogs Mr. John bred \ owned and posted for us.!

Rabbit Hunters would never let something like this just vanish...no sir. They protect the Beagle Gundog Breed.

Just because people don't see it in Hounds and Hunting magazine or at an ACK field trial don't mean it doesn't exist.

People would be surprised maybe even SHOCKED at what is out there... OUT SIDE.....THE BOX.....In the REAL WORLD!

HUNTSMAN you've got some real good old blooded fine hounds at your place and I wish you lived closer so we could hunt together every weekend for a season. Then we would know what might cross well. I know you have some hounds I would love to cross on some of my junk.

Mitch
 
Thank you, Mitch. Not sure what prompted that compliment, but it was appreciated. We should find a way to mix a little of this long-eared, straight-legged, black and tan blood with your fire-eatin swamp runners to see what might happen. Won’t be much red in the pedigrees, I would guess.
 
What prompted the compliment was videos posted on your large pack running a rabbit. First I noticed excellent overall appearance, conformation and thick coat on your hounds which is a must for heavy duty (service) hard working rabbit dogs. Next was desire in many different forms. Also I watched the video over and over for several days off and on stopping \ pausing it at times and running it again and looking for hounds doing good hound work that added real value IMO to what was going on in that race overall. I have learned that The Front Dogs may or may not be controlling.... the chase....keeping the pack on a rabbit. Value added can come from any position in a pack that is why it is so imperative that quality hounds maintain their focused, controlled and deliberate actions from any position they find themselves during a race. Value can be added from any position in a pack and at any time of a race by a quality hound that has control over its focus and emotions. This is not seen as often now days as in the past.

I saw some very good hound work being performed from hounds in the eye of the storm..... the middle..... that caught my eye that any hounds men would appreciate no matter the association or federation they run in and that knows what they are looking at. I saw some real focus on the rabbit and line straddling hound work in the mist (middle) of the storm from a few hounds that stuck out and grabbed me!

There are dogs in your pack in that video that control themselves and the line as good as anything out there in beagles. Excellent hound work, focus and self control in the middle of the mass of excitement and movement (pressure) is of great value in beagle hounds no matter the breeding. Good dogs are good dogs. Greatness is Greatness plain and simple and I saw some that impressed me in several of your dogs in those short video's.

I would love to have a field trial with just your hounds in smaller packs with me following and keep bringing back the winners in packs to second series mixing and matching untill they go head to head. I would like to see the results of 1st second 3rd place and so on.

Quite frankly I could imagine myself putting together a winners pack for you and me to watch perform on a rabbit! After running all your hounds in smaller packs I could see myself putting a great winners pack together that would pound a bunny to death with some of those outstanding hounds in that video.

As for the red pedigrees if we bred dogs...….there would be lots more red in some of the pedigrees then you would imagine. Some have lots of it.

Wish you lived close to me.
 
Thank you for your comments, Mitch. Interesting observations from watching the videos by a recognized expert with a critical eye for hound work. My hounds have been very “energetic” this spring, and think that may come from catching a few rabbits. Gets them fired up, I think.

Our weather in SE Ohio has not been typical springtime weather this year, but running has been good at times. I like the cloudy cool damp days, but we get too many sunny and windy days it seems. Greta Thunberg would say it’s climate change.

I have always liked breeding from those middle of the pack line straddling hounds who helped to hold together a big pack. Old pack huntsmen will tell you to cull from the front and from the rear to take out those too fast or not keeping up if you want a smooth running pack, which really just leaves those middle hounds.

Several years ago, I had a hound named Birdseye running in my pack. She was from Northway Ninja, Woodstock Grannpy, and Indian Hills bloodlines. I started to recognize that no matter how chaotic the running was around her, she was always right on the line. Never a very fast hound, but middle of the pack and working hard. Some of my best hounds today go back to her, when I crossed her back into my bloodlines.

Be glad to have you judge that field trial if you want to road trip to the Midwest someday. Troy Barber made it up here many years ago, so I know it can be done. I bred to Boggy Holler Buddie when Dr Varner had him at Yazoo City, MS many years ago, so that’s as far south as I have traveled with hounds.
 
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