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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want ya'lls opinions on derbies finishing as field champions.

Personally I'm scared that if these dogs are finishing at such a young age they will be wild by the time they reach 2 to 3 years old. I think it's bad breeding to breed to a young dog and pass on those genetics.

This may not be the case with all dogs but we all know from experience that dogs flip flop from good to bad or vice versa during those derby years.
 

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Well, I know there have been some "true" derbies that may have finished as a derby before, but I think there are alot of "derbies" that are not really derbies:whistle:
 

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It would be a great accomplishment and honor to finish a one year old pup but I would rather breed to a dog that finished as a three yr. old. Almost all pups that I have had that were beating my old dogs at a young age got rougher as they aged. Finishing a dog of any age is still a great accomplisment. I just started going to AKC trials this past year and I can tell you to finish one is a big deal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Im not sure I know what ya mean Nutbush.... Mark, I dont see the accomplishment when compared tothe damage it will cause the breed.
 

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Take the Field Trialing out of the picture. Would you still breed to the dog at that young of an age? I think we often put too much emphasis on titles. I'm not selling the Field Trials short, but we've all seen dogs with titles we wouldn't feed. If I saw a derby Field Champion, I liked his looks and the way he hunted and ran, I would ask myself again. Would I breed to this dog at this age If he were not a FC?
 

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Your right dogs do change but Ive also seen dogs at 2 years of age to rough to stay on the ground through 1st series go on and settle down enough to trial and finish when they are 4 or 5 years old. IMO if its good enough to win on the day of the trial then it should win regardless of age.
 

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I think(IMO) it says alot about the state of some field trials when a true derby can win it. At a field trial the best should be there, if a derby wins it seems we are headed in the wrong direction, brace. I can remember back when alot of derbies won at brace trials, don't want to go down that road again. I also know there are exceptions to every rule.
 

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I meant that there are lot of dogs out there, and a lot of breeders that fudge on the birthdates of some litters. I'm not quite sure on how much you know about the qualifications to be a derby but I'll try to give it a go. To be a next years derby they have to be be born on or after July 1 of this year. So If you have a dog with a birthdate of July 1, 2010 then it is actually a 2011 derby, if I ain't mistaken. So what alot of big field trialers do is say take a dog that was actually born, oh April or May or some may fudge a little longer, and they put their actual birthday as July. In other words these dogs could be going on 2 years old but are still ran as derbies. I know, there are some that are true derbies placing in trials, but I bet most of them are not "true" derbies.
 

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which means it runs as a derby until it is two years old.

if the dog was entered in trails with good entries and placed enough to become feild champion(i am talking akc) getting its points and three wins is quite a accomplishment.
if its just ukc or arha then i wouldnt want anything to do with it.i dont think its hard to win a title in those formats

i wouldnt be as much interested as to breeding to the derby champion as to what dogs are in its background.
if derby are beating 4 and 5 year old hounds that tells me that either the breed has gotton better or the trailers are entering more junky dogs.

if folks just want a dog in thier pedigree without doing some background on the dogs habits/style then they shouldnt be breeding dogs anyway
 

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which means it runs as a derby until it is two years old.

if the dog was entered in trails with good entries and placed enough to become feild champion(i am talking akc) getting its points and three wins is quite a accomplishment.
if its just ukc or arha then i wouldnt want anything to do with it.i dont think its hard to win a title in those formats

i wouldnt be as much interested as to breeding to the derby champion as to what dogs are in its background.
if derby are beating 4 and 5 year old hounds that tells me that either the breed has gotton better or the trailers are entering more junky dogs.

if folks just want a dog in thier pedigree without doing some background on the dogs habits/style then they shouldnt be breeding dogs anyway
You are an intelligent hounds man!! I have to give you a very big..AMEN!! on how you think on this subject!!
My opinion it would have to be a Mid West AKC FC or Northern Large Pack derby FC and i am thinking that would be very unlikely??
 

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I think that finishing a dog in AKC is quite an accomplishment at any age.

If a derby can not only compete with older, more experienced dogs, but beat them, I wouldnt hesitate to breed to him if I liked everything else about him including his pedigree.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
personally theres no way ill breed to such a young dog i think that amyone who does is careless
 

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If I liked the dog and his pedigree, Id breed to him even if he didnt have a title, and even if he was a derby.

Even if you breed two field champions (unless its a proven cross that youve made before) its pretty much a crapshoot as to how the pups will turn out so Id be willing to throw the dice at least once with one that could win at that level, at that age, especially if he had a solid pedigree behind him.

I dont really understand why that would make me careless but if it does so be it I guess. :headscratch:
 

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i agree rebel,there are some pretty tough competition in those two federations

and for the record--i aint knocking arha or ukc dogs/champions.i just feel that getting them three wins is tougher than just 1 or two necessary in the other registeries.
there are less trails-so that alone seems to attract dogs from over a larger area.jmo
 

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I think that finishing a dog in AKC is quite an accomplishment at any age.

If a derby can not only compete with older, more experienced dogs, but beat them, I wouldnt hesitate to breed to him if I liked everything else about him including his pedigree.

I totally agree
 

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A derby in AKC can be 18 months old,depending on if it were born July 1st 2010 it is a 2012 derby and if it was born last day of June it is a 2011 derby..I have heard many old timers say when they went to check on their female it was after July 1st..There are some associations that consider a derby up to two years old.When it comes to breeding to any outside male those days are over for me.But each their own,if it will improve what you are kenneling go for it.
 

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JMO, but when I see a male that I like I ask if his daddy is still alive and breeding? What kind of gyp was he bred to to produce this hound? Let's see if he can do it again!
 

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I see the logic in that but just for conversation how do you decide if its better to breed to the sire or the son?
 

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I see the logic in that but just for conversation how do you decide if its better to breed to the sire or the son?
Depends on if you are wanting to go forward or backward and which one is more dominate which depends on which one is more linebreed or inbreed,in most cases,but with a young male it will have little or no track record and that is where your road map/pedigree comes into affect.
 

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reb--i think i have to disagree with ya(again)about the derby age.
i have a male born september 11th 2008.
this is his derby year-he can run in julys large pack derby futurity trail which will means he will be 20 months old at the time of the trail
if he was born in july,he could be up to 24 months and still be able to run in this years derby classes.
i may be wrong but last year he wasnt eligible-he would have had to been born in june of 08 to be last years derby
again i may be wrong but anyway --hes gonna go there this july hahaha
 
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