Deer at trials

Discussion in 'Field Trials' started by Md deadeye, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. Md deadeye

    Md deadeye Well-Known Member

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    As I have said numerous times I don’t trial but I have a question.
    My cousin trials and he marshals and he judges. Saturday he was at a trial in Lancaster Pennsylvania and the whole winners pack ran off on deer.
    I asked him so wins and he said the first one back got first and so on. so my question is, is this normal procedure?
    Again I don’t trial so I don’t have a clue. My thoughts are that all that went should be disqualified. But when I said that he said it has to be a winner.
     
  2. Robert L. Dunn

    Robert L. Dunn Well-Known Member

    I dont know what kind of trial this might have been but in an AKC trial the rule say you cannot disqualify a hound for running off game.
     
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  3. Materjuice

    Materjuice Well-Known Member

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    THEN IT IS A COMPLETE SHAM!!!!!..........Are you kidding us Mr Dunn!

    Back in the day,.... If on a sanctioned UKC hunt,.... a dog running off game was scratched and DQ'ed immediately !!!!

    NO WAY TO HANG THE WORD CHAMPION,... ON A DOG YOU CAN'T EVEN BE CERTAIN IS RUNNING A RABBIT!!! NO WAY,.... HELL NO!!!!!

    Mater
     
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  4. TJRANGER

    TJRANGER Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree Mater!! That doesn’t make sense to have a winner of a rabbit trial decided by showing up first back from running trash. That’s a dog I would sell as a deer dog or give away Champ or no champ
     
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  5. Materjuice

    Materjuice Well-Known Member

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    AND THE WINNER IS,.....

    you guessed it,.... the first trashy dog that "GAVE UP", on the trash run!!!!
    No hint of Championship Standard!!!!!!!

    Thanks for the heads up Mr Dunn!!!!!!,.......... Rediculous!

    Mater
     
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  6. Md deadeye

    Md deadeye Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure what kind of trial he said it was a pack trial in Lancaster Pennsylvania and I know he does spo
    So I’m assuming it was Akc.
     
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  7. beagler86

    beagler86 Well-Known Member

    WOW! That's about all I can say. This is one reason I do not put a lot of weight on a fc bred dog or look for a so and so fc for a stud. With out you actually seeing them run in the field you don't know shit about that dog other then he/she has a title.
     
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  8. Circle4p

    Circle4p Well-Known Member

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    Can you run your e collars at a trial??? If so why did they let them all run the trash???? Just asking cause I don’t know anything about it. I had a short trash race Friday but it didn’t go 150 yards my others went to them and came back so the young ones rode the lightining. Like I said they didn’t go far... just saying....
     
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  9. rienmark

    rienmark Well-Known Member

    Hahaha this should be in the arha format..... Just kidding, no but when I came up in my later teen years I hunted with an old Feller mr. Carson ruark he had a pack of 4 or 5 that would run either one upon request, no kidding take them to some thick cover they would run rabbits or take them to a cut over and they would run a deer with equal enthusiasm love them dogs these dogs were fed some tracks! And yes you guessed it damn trashy tri coloreds
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  10. Circle4p

    Circle4p Well-Known Member

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    I had a blue dog growing up that was like that coon hunting. You could turn loose after dark he’d tree. Turn him loose in the daylight he’d burn a deer up. I loved that dog.
     
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  11. Robert L. Dunn

    Robert L. Dunn Well-Known Member

    No collars at AKC trials. I know that other formats like ARHA, UKC, etc. have a different set of rules and that is fine too. But just letting ya'll know that if you enter a dog in an AKC SPO format, their rules apply. This is just my opinion, but I believe most any beagle will run a deer before they are trained not to. I do not believe that breeding to a dog that has run a deer in the past would automatically make the puppies run deer or vise versa.
     
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  12. Robert L. Dunn

    Robert L. Dunn Well-Known Member

    It just come to me and it is clear in my mind. I know why you boys are confused about field trial rules. You ain't been reading Kenneth Black's post on field trial rules, etc.
     
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  13. MackC

    MackC Moderator

    No, this is NOT normal procedure. I've been to 4 AKC SPO trials this year, there was one deer race, the whole pack was dropped, even the dog that wouldn't run the deer. I wasn't judging the trial mentioned but don't bring a trashy dog to a trial I'm judging. If your in the winners pack and I was judging we would demerit and disqualify the deer starter, catch the remaining hounds and re-cast. I'm not saying the AKC SPO is the best format just stating facts. Running deer is a demerit according to the rules, and the AKC allows for with holding places for excessively faulty hounds. The AKC also recognizes that beagles are used successfully to hunt many game animals and birds, I think that's why there is some leeway in the disqualification process, however, if the club advertises the trial is on Rabbits, that's what the dogs should run. One thing I would like to mention, All hunting beagle trials are supposed to be promoting the beagle as a gundog. Which formats other than AKC SPO actually shoot over the dog? Here is what the AKC standard says about off game.

    8-J Procedure 8 - J. Except for trailing deer, which shall be a demerit, trailing game other than announced shall not be considered a demerit, nor shall any hound be demerited for failing to pack if the pack has been proven to be on game other than announced. In the event that such hound has been ordered up, it shall be reinstated in the pack.

    8-K Judges are to consider that the Beagle is primarily a hunting hound and that its object is first to find game and second to drive it in an energetic and decisive manner and show an animated desire to overtake it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  14. bear128

    bear128 Well-Known Member

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    SO IF YOUR DOG DON'T RUN A FOX WITH THE PACK HE OR SHE IS IN THE WRONG ?
     
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  15. MackC

    MackC Moderator

    If the trial is advertised to be run on Rabbits, dogs are to be judged on Rabbits only. The way the standard is written, you don't get positive or negative score for running game other than rabbits, except for Deer which is a demerit. However there is a paragraph in the standard about being disruptive. When dogs are barking at game other than rabbits that is considered by most judges as being disruptive. The standard is actually very well written. It covers most everything but to administer it correctly; experience, hound knowledge, and good ole common sense are needed.
     
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  16. bear128

    bear128 Well-Known Member

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    GOTCHA THANKS FOR CLARIFYING
     
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  17. Bowguy 1

    Bowguy 1 Well-Known Member

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    This is a good post. I would have said the same. To add you can’t demerit a hound except on deer but you can get em on other rules.
     
  18. Materjuice

    Materjuice Well-Known Member

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    Why in the name of sensibility would you take a dog to a trial that wasn't trash broken in the first place?
    CRAZY if you ask me!

    Glad there are some judges out there like Mack that'll send em to the showers!!!!

    Mater
     
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  19. Why would you take a dog to a trial that is not trash broken? There are places that have no or very few deer. The owner may not know the dog will run deer or other off game. Some dogs never start a deer chase but will join in if another dog does. If the owners dog has never ran with other dogs that will start a deer he would not know if the dog entered in the trial will run off game. Just a couple of the reasons.
     
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  20. Materjuice

    Materjuice Well-Known Member

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    Mr NC Beagler,.... With all due respect sir,....Neither of those seem like very good reasons!
    This may simply prove my ignorance and lack of understanding of the world of trialing!

    If so,... I'm content to remain that way! At some point, it's up to US to set standards to some degree, to maintain the integrity of the sport itself!
    While I, and many others on here, do not trial,... I still cringe at the thought of the dogs we look up to, and hope our packs aspire to being,... a bunch of trashy mutts!

    I judge MYSELF,... don't need any help,... as I am my dogs toughest critic! I personally wouldn't take any dog,... to any trial,.... anywhere if I were not COMPLETELY CONFIDENT,... he/she would not (under any circumstance), run off game! As far as THAT goes,... I won't even take them on a big hunt if they trash!

    FC,..... If I'm not mistaken is short for FIELD CHAMPION!
    In my opinion (my opinion doesn't count for much),.... ANY dog with FC preceding their Name,... that will run a deer, or ANYTHING other than a rabbit! Got that title in a very
    superficial manner!

    I took A LOT of pride in my dogs here a while back,.... We turn out,... dogs strike one red hot and get into the run for 30 seconds,... when I see my 2 coming back to the truck! The rest of the party asked my if I KNEW WHAT IT WAS,.... I SAID NO,... BUT I KNOW WHAT IT AINT!!!!! Was I proud,.... YOU DARN TOOTIN!!!!

    THAT,... is just one of the MANY things,... THAT MAKE THEM RABBITDOGS!!!!

    Mater