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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I run UBGF-style gundogs. Because of this, I am primarily aware of bloodlines and kennel reputations of hounds that run in these associations or trials. Certain bloodlines carry reputations of being harder hitting or closer and cleaner within the federation.

Now, with that being said, it seems that oftentimes everybody has a different opinion on whether XYZ bloodline is fast or slow. For example I asked a guy about Slim Shady hounds, and he said "Man they are awful loose" and another guy at the same trial said "yeah they are nice and close, but they won't outpower anything..." Which translates to me as I am going to have to go and look at them...


As an over-generalized example that half of the people reading this are going to want to debate (lol!), in our area, it was pretty well accepted that stuff that goes back to Bear is (for the most part) going to clean you up and stuff that goes back to Otis is going to give you some foot but might make you a little looser. (Obviously this is a super-general statement, there is variation even in each litter, these hounds are way back in people's pedigrees, etc...)


MY QUESTION IS,

If a guy wanted to outcross his UBGF blood (that maybe goes back to Choptalk, Rapid Run, Bullocks Creek, Orchard Lane, Browns LA, Wipeout) with some Midwest blood to pick up a step but not lose too much line control or checkwork, what bloodline(s) would you recommend? What bloodlines are competing in Midwest trials that are maybe getting out-powered when a judge is looking for something a little too rough, but are the most impressive on the line and at the check? What Midwest bloodlines are going to cut your hound off if he gambles at the check, and will burn you if you start running too far over the line? Which ones carry the reputation as the CLEANEST, TIGHTEST hounds that almost belong in the UBGF? What stud are you Midwest guys breeding to for line control and tight checkwork?

I'm just curious, not trying to get people to talk bad about bloodlines!
 

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I run UBGF-style gundogs. Because of this, I am primarily aware of bloodlines and kennel reputations of hounds that run in these associations or trials. Certain bloodlines carry reputations of being harder hitting or closer and cleaner within the federation.

Now, with that being said, it seems that oftentimes everybody has a different opinion on whether XYZ bloodline is fast or slow. For example I asked a guy about Slim Shady hounds, and he said "Man they are awful loose" and another guy at the same trial said "yeah they are nice and close, but they won't outpower anything..." Which translates to me as I am going to have to go and look at them...


As an over-generalized example that half of the people reading this are going to want to debate (lol!), in our area, it was pretty well accepted that stuff that goes back to Bear is (for the most part) going to clean you up and stuff that goes back to Otis is going to give you some foot but might make you a little looser. (Obviously this is a super-general statement, there is variation even in each litter, these hounds are way back in people's pedigrees, etc...)


MY QUESTION IS,

If a guy wanted to outcross his UBGF blood (that maybe goes back to Choptalk, Rapid Run, Bullocks Creek, Orchard Lane, Browns LA, Wipeout) with some Midwest blood to pick up a step but not lose too much line control or checkwork, what bloodline(s) would you recommend? What bloodlines are competing in Midwest trials that are maybe getting out-powered when a judge is looking for something a little too rough, but are the most impressive on the line and at the check? What Midwest bloodlines are going to cut your hound off if he gambles at the check, and will burn you if you start running too far over the line? Which ones carry the reputation as the CLEANEST, TIGHTEST hounds that almost belong in the UBGF? What stud are you Midwest guys breeding to for line control and tight checkwork?

I'm just curious, not trying to get people to talk bad about bloodlines!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I should clarify something...

I'm not actually looking at making an outcross right now. It was just that I was thinking over the weekend, I wonder how much cross over there is. If you take the slowest/closest of Midwest and the fastest/roughest of UBGF, how do they compare? Admittedly, I do not go to Midwest Trials. We know a major outcross will produce some hounds like mom, some like dad, and probably none that is between the two. I was also curious if any of the blood we are running is showing up at those trials, and if there isn't any overlap in blood, how much is there in style? I was at a pack trial earlier in the year and some of the hounds had such a wide check area but hit harder, I was wondering if they went back to some stuff that was competing in the Midwest.
 

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I have done this. I ended up using a striker/ sock it to me bitch line and crossing it with a male that placed in ubgf trials, he was shorts on bottom and wingates and gay on top. Took a female out of that stuff and bred her twice. Once to fc kimbrels superfly trick. Once to FC Turkey creek southern smoke (stubby). I love the male I got out of smoke. Best dog I've ever owned.
 

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I agree with Duke’s assessment of the running style of the Northway line. I am not sure how successful they have been in Midwest/Midsouth trials, however. FC Abshire’s Junie was one from those lines who finished in Midwest, but that was probably 15? years ago?
 

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Indian Hills, especially heavy Indian Hills Majer have been the cleanest closest dogs i've seen that i'd consider fast. Good luck finding it nowdays, its been 10 years or more since i've known anyone that had the good Indian Hills stuff that ran like that. Damn sure was fun to watch, i tried to buy some of it but they werent for sale
 

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I bred to FC Indian Hills Majer, Fld Wnr Indian Hills Rowdy, FC Indian Hills Trapper, FC Steppy BT, and River Hills Majer. Also bred to FC New City Cruiser, who was Majer’s half brother (same dam), Fld Wnr New City Crockett, and New City Brass Chip, among others. I miss the days when hounds of this type were readily available to us.
 

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I have and have had several dogs heavily influenced by Indian Hills . My current dogs have a good bit of it mostly in 3rd thru 5 gen.
I enjoy there hunt, nose & conformation. I have heard more negative comments about the Indian Hills blood than I have any other! I 've laughed to myself more than once at this talk from guys that I figure probably never hunted with what there bad mouthing ! I never hunted with them either I just acquired this blood. But the more I here from veteran houndsman that were there and seen them run the more I like it . Seems to me some are trying to create this type of hound today . And like Huntsman said they were available back in the day. My guess is all the bad mouthing of the show blood turned people away.
 

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I can’t say I have heard bad mouthing about Indian Hills. There is not a huge amount of show blood behind the Indian Hills lines, not as much as John New used with his New City. The show blood behind them was excellent stuff from some very old lines, so any bad mouthing would stem from ignorance. I was there, judged, watched, and ran with those hounds.
 
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