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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Anyone Working Hard on Improving the Focused, Briar Grubbing HUNT and Jump Power in your hounds?

If your are attempting to IMPROVE the overall Toughness, Gameness and HUNT in your line of hounds...while maintaining all the good qualities you have how are you doing it?

How is it going?

What is working for you?

What is not working for you?

Lastly.....

How do you test to measure, prove your success \ failure in the breeding pen when attempting to improve REAL HUNT while maintaining all the good qualities?

or

Are you completely satisfied in the HUNT department as your hounds are the complete and total package and need no improving?
 

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Mine have all the hunt that I want , I need them to run the track better . It looks like they struggle with the scent to keep pushing it without so many checks .
guess I can say mine are the same, some could say mine are a little sloppy, I really don't care lol, as long as there're circling and staying on it is all matters to me
 

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Mine are not sloppy on the line , they just loose the scent running the line . I watched the rabbit come out this morning and then run a straight line about 50 yards on a grass path and go to it’s left in the trees . All 3 dogs came out where the rabbit did and then they went in a check . They checked slightly where the rabbit went in .
 

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Never entirely satisfied here. Always could use more hunt/search, more size, better conformation, better line control, better mouths, better temperaments, more biddability, on and on. I am trying a touch of Reffett's and Pine Mt Chester (Northway Spur lines) in my pack currently to get more of the hard searching hounds I like. Also, breeding from my own lines with search/jump as a top priority when selecting hounds to breed. Breeding hounds is a juggling act of trying to keep all the balls in the air without dropping anything important in the process!
 

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I don't see many dogs with what I really call hard hunt. Years ago the dogs I had would push the door of the dog box open to get out and go find the Biggest thickest Briar patch or thicket they could find. They wouldn't come out of it until it was completely searched. If it didn't produce a rabbit you could burn it down. No rabbit was going to be found.

Today we make it to easy for the dogs. Running in enclosurers is great and offers some of us the only way to have a place to run our dogs, but the dogs loose hunt as they basically stumble on a line instead of bumping the rabbit off the nest like in the old days in the wild. Some of the problem is due to this and some is human error in training. We all want to jump a rabbit as quick as we can and get in the cover, beating brush with some dogs sticking almost in our feet waiting on us to do their job. I have been guilty of this myself. Not so anymore as I would spend more time on the ground then standing. I have a nice female, now about 5 or 6 years old that was given to me. She is out of one of the most popular Studs in the country. She had no hunt at all when I got her. She was what I called a healer. If you stepped back you probably would of stepped on her. She ran well once the rabbit was up. My running Buddy, Mike took her to run with his pack as he only had two females and didn't want to run with his Field Champion since he wouldn't leave anything for the females. He wanted them to learn on their own and would run them for 4, 5 hours at a time. He would let them search for the rabbit. When I took this female out myself I was pleasingly surprised at the fact that she had hunt, no longer a healer. She was a totally different dog that can jump and run her own rabbit now. In some the hunt isn't bred out, it just isn't developed into them. Unfortunately doesn't hold true to all though.
 

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I’ve got 3 dog’s now that I’m trying to build off of for the future. My old male has great hunt and loves the thick stuff. He’s got good rabbit sense about him he seems to always jump one rather quickly when turned out and won’t quit on a rabbit. In a hard check/loss he don’t give up”he know’s that rabbit is there and he’s focused on finding it”. To me his flaws are a horn mouth so he’s always raising his nose off the track and I’d like to see him have a little more urgency in his check work, not better check work just with a faster pace. I’ve got a 2yr. old female out of him that’s got a chop mouth that’s showing a lot of his strong points and running good, her weaknesses would be she’s not independent enough & confidence “she hasn’t been soloed” totally my fault I just can’t stand to run only one dog at a time it’s just not my style but she’s getting better with age.
I bred her to a male out of five star Smokey—- (Rapid run Lil high rollin bawler) that’s gritty and run’s a good track he should cross very well on her. Pups are due in about 2 weeks, I’m anxious for next fall/winter to see how the pup I’m keeping comes along if she works out eventually I’ll take her back on my old male if he lives long enough and see if I can keep it going. Also planning another cross with my (TNT’s show me da money) female and my old male once she comes in, they compliment each other well and should help with each other’s weaknesses. Breeding to improve upon what I already have in my own kennel with the mindset of good dog’s to good dog’s while trying to stack up their strong trait’s and minimizing their weaknesses kinda like everyone else is doing, it’s an ongoing process
 

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What I look for is jumping ability rather than hunt. I’ve hunted a lot with dogs that run around & thru every thicket yet never seem to start any rabbits. I’ve also owned a few that by just watching you’d think they never find one. But every time you go they jump just as many or more than any other dog on the ground. Went on or keep anything that just stands at your feet. Knowing the line you have & how they develop is critical too. We all like see flashy hunt but some never produce a rabbit. Recognize that some have a bit different way of going about jumping to. I’ve had some that take a older track & move it steady as a clock to a jump in no time at all. I guess some would say they are trailing but I’ve learned they can be very special in some big thick clear cut areas almost can’t crawl through. They trail right to where rabbit sitting & sound like explosion. I’m not talking about dog gomms around back & forth over same ground. It hard to describe but you’d see it you know it. I’ve only owned a couple with this trait. Here we don’t have enclosures we got big timber cuts or Large tracts of strip mine land that gets a lot pressure you have to have a jump dog to be successful
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Branch,


Thanks for responding.

We are on the same page. I agree. Just wondering what you are using and doing to get more of it and keep it in your hounds?

I get what you are saying when I say HUNT I am not describing search per say.

I do understand what you are saying about dogs searching like a bird dog and coming up empty with other focused hounds HUNTING a rabbit in the correct places or jumping rabbits behind the hard searching none producer. The HUNT I am talking about consistently PRODUCES results. To me HUNT is looking only where a rabbit may ACTUALLY be. These locations are usually the meanest, toughest, worst, nastiest places the majority of hounds refuse to go explore on their own unless someone throws them in there and they are soon coming right back out.

HUNT- Drawn like a magnet to the bad places rabbits take refuge in and up under that most hounds will not go look in. HUNT = Dogs you have to drag out of the briars when a race is not underway if you are ready to leave. Dogs that find the meanest, worst, thickest, matted briar patches and live up underneath them Looking----(HUNTING) a rabbit in the nest whenever a race is not underway. These hound have a one track mind find a rabbit with no help.

These are hounds you don't see unless a race is underway as they are underneath the trash. These are hounds you follow all day as they show you where the rabbits are not where you drag them. After all that is their job. Take you to the rabbits and run them to the gun. That is the HUNT I am speaking of. Like Mr. John said......This is what is MISSING in many lines of beagle hounds.... BIG TIME today.....I promise you it is.

Is anyone trying to actually......breed this in their hounds...AND....NOT......loose the straightness and control while running?
 

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I hear you Mitch. Your definition is exactly what I try breed into mine. The other day I hunting big clear cut with some young ones. A 10 month old female she doesn’t look like she hunts hard went in. They don’t have look for thickets it’s all one big thicket lol. She jumped a rabbit it only ran 150 yards to big loud log pile. The couldn’t get it out. She went right back over same area where she jumped out & jumped another one. It run right out in front of me on drag road. Hour & run in that mess. She’s still learning
 

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I guess to answer your question Mitch about what I’m doing to get a dog with the ability to produce game I’d say starts in breeding pen. I’ve line bred same line of dogs for good while now . I like what I have. I also coop with a few other guys who have same lines just like you decribed with mr purvis. That can be tall order as some have same desires for better dog & some just want take advantage of the best effort’s of others. You have already explained some best ways to go about it. & I agree with what you say.
 

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Mitch I have a male dog that hunts like you described. He is in under all the briar, knows where to find the rabbits, very hard hunting. I am breeding my females to him trying to get more like him. He came from Mitch Evans breeding, line bred on Flat Creek Danny and Flat Creek Blake, goes back to Wright's Shake 20 times.
 
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